Yuzu sour auto. In coco and an autopot.

[Hmr81]

we've not gone over 3ml pl yet. i feel like they are drinking about the same, but its hard to judge as with hand feeding youve got all that run off that you would need to subtract i guess.

You're with shogun as well right? Vs canna coco I think they're a bit more diluted..and you're still getting good results at 3ml/l? You in hardwater area? What's your base ec?

Yes i run shogun. yes, seem to be getting great results at 3ml in flower. we are in a hardwater area. I have no idea what my base EC is as i never measure it mate sorry.

[wutang]

we've not gone over 3ml pl yet. i feel like they are drinking about the same, but its hard to judge as with hand feeding youve got all that run off that you would need to subtract i guess.

You're with shogun as well right? Vs canna coco I think they're a bit more diluted..and you're still getting good results at 3ml/l? You in hardwater area? What's your base ec?

Yes i run shogun. yes, seem to be getting great results at 3ml in flower. we are in a hardwater area. I have no idea what my base EC is as i never measure it mate sorry.

Did u ever run shogun before autopots? If so what was the max ml/l u went then?

[Hmr81]

yea ive always run shogun nutes mate, so used it when hand feeding in coco. Obviously the hydro a and b are different bottles to the coco ones but im using roughly the same mix.

Seedlings @ .5ml
Veg up to 2ml
Flower 2.5-3ml

If i was handing feeding, i would also be adding PK when needed and some calmag but since going to the autopot system i've only used the A and B(veg then bloom variants).

[Herbalist]

I've recently dived into Coco while playing with fertigation recipes. I've found that Coco actually responds better if you keep the K:Ca ratio to around 1:1. If comparing to my hydroponics ratios that's slightly lower K and higher Ca. This is due to the high CEC of the coir as well as Coco releases K as it decomposes. Same for Mg, within hydroponics, 30mg/L of Mg in solution is plenty to keep most cultivars happy but, I did the same in Coco and the plants were showing signs of Mg deficiency. This was more pronounced when using LEDs over HID lighting for some reason. Increasing to ~50mg/L seemed to solve the issue.

I'm short, Coco releases K and holds onto divalent ions like Ca, Mg, Fe and other microelents. It's very rare to see K deficiencies in Coco. IMHO, many people have issues with Coco when they try to run things like other methods. Coco I'm fact needs a much higher EC than other methods to compensate for the properties above. If using an off-the-shelf two-part like canna, the EC you should be aiming for is ~1.8-2.3EC to avoid issues when using LEDs or other VHO lighting and conditions are optimal. This can be lowered if using HID lighting or the temperature is on the warm side.

I do love your comments Seymore. They always make me feel dumb. (Not a difficult feat)
Had to read that a couple times to wrap my head around it. Maybe i should put the spliff down for a bit.

Thank you, sir.

[Herbalist]

Few shit pics

[seymore_budz]

I've recently dived into Coco while playing with fertigation recipes. I've found that Coco actually responds better if you keep the K:Ca ratio to around 1:1. If comparing to my hydroponics ratios that's slightly lower K and higher Ca. This is due to the high CEC of the coir as well as Coco releases K as it decomposes. Same for Mg, within hydroponics, 30mg/L of Mg in solution is plenty to keep most cultivars happy but, I did the same in Coco and the plants were showing signs of Mg deficiency. This was more pronounced when using LEDs over HID lighting for some reason. Increasing to ~50mg/L seemed to solve the issue.

I'm short, Coco releases K and holds onto divalent ions like Ca, Mg, Fe and other microelents. It's very rare to see K deficiencies in Coco. IMHO, many people have issues with Coco when they try to run things like other methods. Coco I'm fact needs a much higher EC than other methods to compensate for the properties above. If using an off-the-shelf two-part like canna, the EC you should be aiming for is ~1.8-2.3EC to avoid issues when using LEDs or other VHO lighting and conditions are optimal. This can be lowered if using HID lighting or the temperature is on the warm side.

I do love your comments Seymore. They always make me feel dumb. (Not a difficult feat)
Had to read that a couple times to wrap my head around it. Maybe i should put the spliff down for a bit.

Thank you, sir.

LOL don't feel dumb!!! I didn't know half this shit a year ago and Ive been growing nearly 20 years and I still don't understand it fully.

Only reason why I've gone a little deeper into Coco is that I find a lot of growers have issues when using hard water with Canna nutrients. Turns out Canna Coco nutrients and hard water is a recipe for disaster. This is due to a low K to Ca ratio. When mixed, Canna Coco NPK ratio when mixed is 5-4-3. That's very high P and very low K for cannabis. Couple that with a high Ca content and very hard water and you have a recipe for disaster. The Ca in solution will be close to 300ppm and the K levels will be around 70ppm - 100ppm. On top of that you have high P levels before adding any PH down. As the water contains high levels of calcium carbonate, it will take quite a lot of phosphoric acid to drop the PH and can also cause precipitation due to the higher levels of P already in solution. If this is the case, symptoms will present as a K deficiency so, chlorosis of the lower leaves that start with a little necrosis at the edge that spreads inwards as things progress. It can also inhibit the uptake of Mg. That will present as red stems and interveinal chlorosis around the lower and older leaves. Quite often I see people showing photos of Potassium deficiency with a Mg deficiency mixed in and claiming it's a Calcium deficiency and applying a shit ton more CalMag :)

If I was forced to use hard water, I wouldn't use Canna nutrients.

[biosynthetic]

I've recently dived into Coco while playing with fertigation recipes. I've found that Coco actually responds better if you keep the K:Ca ratio to around 1:1. If comparing to my hydroponics ratios that's slightly lower K and higher Ca. This is due to the high CEC of the coir as well as Coco releases K as it decomposes. Same for Mg, within hydroponics, 30mg/L of Mg in solution is plenty to keep most cultivars happy but, I did the same in Coco and the plants were showing signs of Mg deficiency. This was more pronounced when using LEDs over HID lighting for some reason. Increasing to ~50mg/L seemed to solve the issue.

I'm short, Coco releases K and holds onto divalent ions like Ca, Mg, Fe and other microelents. It's very rare to see K deficiencies in Coco. IMHO, many people have issues with Coco when they try to run things like other methods. Coco I'm fact needs a much higher EC than other methods to compensate for the properties above. If using an off-the-shelf two-part like canna, the EC you should be aiming for is ~1.8-2.3EC to avoid issues when using LEDs or other VHO lighting and conditions are optimal. This can be lowered if using HID lighting or the temperature is on the warm side.

I do love your comments Seymore. They always make me feel dumb. (Not a difficult feat)
Had to read that a couple times to wrap my head around it. Maybe i should put the spliff down for a bit.

Thank you, sir.

LOL don't feel dumb!!! I didn't know half this shit a year ago and Ive been growing nearly 20 years and I still don't understand it fully.

Only reason why I've gone a little deeper into Coco is that I find a lot of growers have issues when using hard water with Canna nutrients. Turns out Canna Coco nutrients and hard water is a recipe for disaster. This is due to a low K to Ca ratio. When mixed, Canna Coco NPK ratio when mixed is 5-4-3. That's very high P and very low K for cannabis. Couple that with a high Ca content and very hard water and you have a recipe for disaster. The Ca in solution will be close to 300ppm and the K levels will be around 70ppm - 100ppm. On top of that you have high P levels before adding any PH down. As the water contains high levels of calcium carbonate, it will take quite a lot of phosphoric acid to drop the PH and can also cause precipitation due to the higher levels of P already in solution. If this is the case, symptoms will present as a K deficiency so, chlorosis of the lower leaves that start with a little necrosis at the edge that spreads inwards as things progress. It can also inhibit the uptake of Mg. That will present as red stems and interveinal chlorosis around the lower and older leaves. Quite often I see people showing photos of Potassium deficiency with a Mg deficiency mixed in and claiming it's a Calcium deficiency and applying a shit ton more CalMag :)

If I was forced to use hard water, I wouldn't use Canna nutrients.

Interesting, maybe this is the reason I don't use Canna nutes? I have used them when I lived in a different house where the water wasn't as high ppm with success, and have thought about going back to them to compare yields etc cheers

[seymore_budz]

I do love your comments Seymore. They always make me feel dumb. (Not a difficult feat)
Had to read that a couple times to wrap my head around it. Maybe i should put the spliff down for a bit.

Thank you, sir.

LOL don't feel dumb!!! I didn't know half this shit a year ago and Ive been growing nearly 20 years and I still don't understand it fully.

Only reason why I've gone a little deeper into Coco is that I find a lot of growers have issues when using hard water with Canna nutrients. Turns out Canna Coco nutrients and hard water is a recipe for disaster. This is due to a low K to Ca ratio. When mixed, Canna Coco NPK ratio when mixed is 5-4-3. That's very high P and very low K for cannabis. Couple that with a high Ca content and very hard water and you have a recipe for disaster. The Ca in solution will be close to 300ppm and the K levels will be around 70ppm - 100ppm. On top of that you have high P levels before adding any PH down. As the water contains high levels of calcium carbonate, it will take quite a lot of phosphoric acid to drop the PH and can also cause precipitation due to the higher levels of P already in solution. If this is the case, symptoms will present as a K deficiency so, chlorosis of the lower leaves that start with a little necrosis at the edge that spreads inwards as things progress. It can also inhibit the uptake of Mg. That will present as red stems and interveinal chlorosis around the lower and older leaves. Quite often I see people showing photos of Potassium deficiency with a Mg deficiency mixed in and claiming it's a Calcium deficiency and applying a shit ton more CalMag :)

If I was forced to use hard water, I wouldn't use Canna nutrients.

Interesting, maybe this is the reason I don't use Canna nutes? I have used them when I lived in a different house where the water wasn't as high ppm with success, and have thought about going back to them to compare yields etc cheers

If you experience issues then it's most likely the case. Sometimes you will be fine as the range for each element is quite large and you don't have to be optimal to have healthy looking plants. That being said, after all of the research I've done in regards to cannabis and nutrient requirements, it's lead me to the conclusion than Canna isn't great at all. There's now about five years of research and data publicly available that shows what Cannabis likes. Of course there is differences between cultivars but, they all seem to be around Ca,Mg and S levels.

It's also been proven that cannabis doesn't like high levels of P, K and Ca in the generative stages. The plants accumulate these within the roots and foliage and translocate towards the later stages of their lifecycle. Adding a bunch of P and K is not nessecary at all and in fact keeping P at a constant 30ppm while decreasing the Ca and K levels to around 100ppm is optimal. Also, cannabis prefers consistent level of N throughout it's lifecycle but it's beneficial to drop slightly to steer plants into producing more secondary metabolites and a better quality product. Increasing the S and Mg is also recommended in some publications.

Canna was the poster child for me for many years. I've had some very successful grows using Canna. That being said, it's looking like it's not at all optimal for growing the best cannabis. And if I think back, although I had great success, a lot of the time the plants would be burnt to shit before harvest. If you look at a lot of the commercial cultivators that are spending big bucks on research and building nutrient ragimes based on feedback loops; you will find it looks very different to what we have been using for years! They all follow what I would consider a lettuce/herb formula. Canna when using the full range like many others geared towards cannabis are fruiting crop formulas like you would use when growing tomatoes. This makes sense toe because Cannabis is a herb and not a fruit :)

Anyway, I'll stop hijacking this thread to throw shit at Canna

[Hmr81]

Shogun works

[seymore_budz]

Shogun works

Do they have the oxides listed at percentages on the back of the bottle? If so, post a photo of them and I'll do the maths to see how they are different from Canna.