Soil Coco NFT

[MediGrower]

I am looking for some advice on which grow method would be least labour intensive.

looking to set up first small grow for medicinal use

due to ill health something small i can easily manage would be great

would be great to hear form anyone who has used one or all of the techniques and learn some of the pros cons

i came in as beginner wanting soil organic etc but disadvantage of weight of pots etc

had been leaning to coco as a middle ground again need for big water butts etc

so am now also considering NFT for the compact semi automated nature

just starting to build a shopping list so far looking at using
80x80 green qube (or similar)
telos 008 (or equivilant HPS)
NFT Gro-Tank 205 GTi 71cm x 40cm-20 L (or alternative)

any advice suggestions welcome

[MediGrower]

Hey MediGrower,

With any style of growing, there will be pro's and cons. Here's my thoughts.

Soil pro: easy to get startes and great for beginners. Soil eliminates the need for expensive meters and worrying about the nutrients so you can concentrate on growing. Soil buffers! So mistakes are less costly and less frequent.

Soil cons: soil isn't as sterile as hydro/coco and can introduce pests. Plants grown in soil tend to grow slower than in hydro/coco. Soil requires the grower to use larger pots and more media than hydro/soil. In layman's, this is because it requires a large root structure to maximize uptake of nutrients from the soil. This means more lugging soil about your house. Soil is messy :)


Coco pros: Coco has an excellent air to water retention ratio making it perfect for cannabis. Coco works more like hydroponics so you feed it chelated salts that are immediately available to the plant. This in turn allows the plant to move it's efforts into growing folage and all the good stuff. Coco requires less media than soil making it more manageable. Coco is very hard to overwater. A mistake soil growers make when transitioning onto coco is run it too dry and that in turn can show up as a Mg def later in the grow .

Coco cons: coco requires the grower to stabilise the PH/TDS of the nutrient solution. This will require the grower to purchase expensive meters to guarantee success. Coco has a tendency to hold onto calcium, magnesium and iron. This can manifest into issues normally mid grow. If you're using a coco nutrient those issues occur less but I feel like coco requires a flush every 6 weeks or so to rebalance the media.

Hydro pros: Hydroponics is the fastest and most productive way of growing. It's easy to get setup and running. Provides the grower with full control of his plants. Hydro allows you to fine tune your schedule. Hydro allows the grower to correct problems the fastest. Hydroponics produces the least amount of waste.

Hydro cons: Hydro introduces a lot more to think about. You have 0 buffer between thr roots and the water so mistakes are faster to cause issues and more aggressive. Hydro also requires the grower to purchase expensive meters. Hydro often requires pumps etc this can be noisey.

This is all subjective and my opinion. Others may not agree and there's no correct answer. These are just some of the things I've noticed. I may of missed somethings out and if you have a question in particular, fire away.

PS: Go LED :) In those smaller tents it's much easier to control the environment.

Hope this helps.

[MediGrower]

Hey Grumpygrower

apreciate the detailed and informative reply and exactly what i was after and more

I am swaying that way (LED) with the telos 0008 but open to suggestions. on any equipment as still trying to build a shopping list to suit.
this was my theory that the initial outlay is reclaimed in what you save in energy for the light and knock on savings in environment.

grow sysyem wise due to physical health i feel the hydro/NFT system maybe most suitable with less physical labour but being a beginner the ammount of user input required and lack of knowledge should issues strike. i mean i dont mind buy extra pumps for failure or similar but with limited knowledge i worry could i recover an issue in time. noise also an issue but can this be muted (drips closer to water or pumps run on slow). would the motor on a small pump for system of this size make more noise than say the exraction or circulation fans?
also in terms of wiggle room is there much in terms of pump failure time without water. and are there ways to limit user input and reduce usrr error re nutes? I would be at home for the duration of the grow and it would be in my bedroom but what sort of schedule could i expect in terms of checking adjusting.
As i was under impression nutes user input wise with a small 20l tank would be fill with solution adjust ph etc then leave it until a water change was needed.
if i can reduce issues/concerns in this area with either learning manual techniques or automation then i feel a 20l NFT in a small 80 x 80 or 100 x 100 tent with L.E.D maybe the way to go i also only intend to grow say 2 indica in that space so a quick turnover with faster growth would be good as would the lightweight setup for usability and stealth. also all this will be posted so avoiding big bags of soil cocco and pots etc is a plus

the only upshots for me i can see to pots be it Soil/Coco are the bigger resivoir meaning less user input but this comes with more physical labour

in terms of expensive meters im not sure what i would need exactly yet as still building a list so im open to any suggestions on kit.
but rough idea so far is
Green qube 100
telos led 400
extraction fan carbon filter kit 120
NFT tank 50
nutes and ph 100
extra pumps rock wool cubes etc 100

but as its medicinal for me and currently paying far more than id like on a regular basis so what i will save long term will hopefully outweigh the initial outlay and my intended setup is small. also hope to save in led and environmental energy savings.

also is there anything in hydro as a method producing better quality resin terpene? so for me more medicinal value per harvest and same question for L.E.D

thanks again for taking the time to help out much appreciated

[Bulls]

I see grumpy given you the best possible answer to your question. Regarding the LED. Why don't your took at invisivle sun website? You can find it on a side or at thevery bottom of the forum.
Nanook is using a led panel which has great coverage id believe . I will ask him to pop in as not sure which model he has.

[Nanook]

Personally I would not go for the LED your looking at and the reason for this is...
" The GN Telos 0008 is the best you'll get. On a Watt for Watt basis (1.9 μmol per W) "
I would lean to these from one of our sponsors, due to the output...
https://invisiblesunled.co.uk/collectio ... trip-range
" Lamp Efficacy
2.61 umols/J "

The downside is its not such a plug and play unit, but I believe they are shipping them premade now ( mine were in kit form which was a pain in the arse, but only because I'm a lazy bugger tbf )
I am not sure what size youd be best with in an 80x80 but I would imagine the ISH 3R Horticultural light - Powered by Invisible Sun R Strip and Samsung LM301H
Invisible Sun LED UK

£259.95

Send a PM to invisiblesun on here and see what he says would be my best advice.

As for what system to run, its horses for courses really, I love NFT, always have, always will but I am growing in coco atm due to the noise it can make. I find coco more effort ( even recirc ) and more crap to dispose of at the end... but most I speak to find it the opposite and love coco. In an 80x80 to do it right in NFT youd want a water chiller as well, tho again others run without, but you risk pythium ( root rot ) in my experience. I have also seen massive loss in yields in NFT if a pump dies ( or I get pissed and forget to plug it in after a res change ) over the course of 12 hours - almost loosing an entire crop.
DONT skimp on the carbon filter, I use a viper pro and its flawless. Outlasts every rhino pro ive ever had. The fan as well, even a silent one is loud in my experience.

Sorry not to give a clearer answer, it really is so dependant on your area and level you want to get to.

[MediGrower]

hi guys thanks for helping out

I will definitely check out invisible sun after this

i have no idea brand wise HPS or LED but on what research id done so far looked like best i could see for the space (the figure you give nanook (1.9 μmol per W) i believe i what i saw in the test.
there is a cheaper but less efficient telos 0006 suggests a 75 x 75 space where as i felt the 0008 being for a 90 x 90 space would give that bit extra in the intended 80 x 80 tent
im definitely open to look at other brand/models of lighting such as the ISH 3R Horticultural light you mention though as weighing in at 8kilos the telos is quite a heavy fixture
(as its put up and leave pretty much I felt extra weight was ok but im open to a lighter weight fixture/unit)

the issue of a DIY light doesnt appeal much LOL
I kind of want the whole setup to be out of the box plug and play while hopefully being as fool or noob proof as possible.

i am leaning towards NFT for many reasons light weight low fuss set up efficient use of water nutes and faster turnover any advice always appreciated ill look into any suggestions such as water chiller you mention and any other method kit etc. as if its essential kit or will help my first time to be a success then its worth the investment to me

Re pythium I did see some info on this could silver bullet or similar be used? or would the raised temp *minus water chiller* just encourage the pythium regadless? I did read/see something on having tank solution at X degrees tho i dont remember the figure off hand.

Re Pump breakdown could i get round this by cycling 2 pumps as seems 24/7 use is main cause of failure or what is alternative you/others generally use such as buy replacement pumps in advance and check daily for failures (or set humidity sense alarms in top tray)

see whole crop loss etc frightens me of course but i dont think im completely put off the NFT still.

I have not seen that brand but only started looking into extraction kit last night (read a old post/reply by you on RVK fans so had 4" mdel of that in mind) i will look for viper pro filter tho too. i assume you mean the viper performs better odour reduction or longevity.

as for expense not made of money but i have to look at my current outlay 4-600 pm just to have basic quality of life.

so getting the right kit to make this a success is great value for money and peace of mind to know i have the meds i need strain specific and knowing what went into them.

thanks all for continued support advice

[seymore_budz]

Hey Grumpygrower

apreciate the detailed and informative reply and exactly what i was after and more

No problem bud!

I am swaying that way (LED) with the telos 0008 but open to suggestions. on any equipment as still trying to build a shopping list to suit.
this was my theory that the initial outlay is reclaimed in what you save in energy for the light and knock on savings in environment.

The telos looks like a decent choice. It has a nice full spectrum, ~2umol/J output and ip66 rating. There are others on the market like the IS ones the guys have been suggesting. Those are a little more DIY but ~15% more efficient at 2.4umol/J. The increase in power comes from there being no cover over the LED on the Invisible Sun LED I think but I could be wrong. The Invisible Sun is cheaper too. The equivalent wattage in HPS is kicking out around 1.4umol/J. You also have CMH lighting to consider and that would also be a great choice for your setup but IMO led will be your best bet. You claw the initial outlay back in energy savings, not replacing bulbs and they're easier to manage due to the lower thermal footprint.

grow sysyem wise due to physical health i feel the hydro/NFT system maybe most suitable with less physical labour but being a beginner the ammount of user input required and lack of knowledge should issues strike. i mean i dont mind buy extra pumps for failure or similar but with limited knowledge i worry could i recover an issue in time.

You're in the right place! May I suggest you post in the mentor request section. There are many growers here willing to mentor you through a grow and help you get going. That way, if any issues arise, you have somewhere to get advice. Hydroponics is hard if you make it hard. If you stick to the bottled nutrients and can follow simple instructions, you will have a successful grow unless disaster strikes like mold, root rot or pests. You can mitigate risk.but never 100% guarantee things. Same as anything in life though :)

noise also an issue but can this be muted (drips closer to water or pumps run on slow). would the motor on a small pump for system of this size make more noise than say the exraction or circulation fans?

N.F.T is a little noisey. Not obnoxious and not louder than fans etc but the trickle is the equivalent to a large fish tank or something. I know guys that use the spreader mat to soften the trickle noise by overhangging the mat into the water so the water doesn't fall into the water but my thoughts are that breaking of the surface tension actually provides the needed oxygen and if you run low on that, root rot can occur. My advise would to be use as intended and learn to love the noise :) I find it relaxing like rain but it does make me want to go to the toilet sometimes.

also in terms of wiggle room is there much in terms of pump failure time without water. and are there ways to limit user input and reduce usrr error re nutes?

Pump failure is a bitch, doesn't happen often but does happen. I personally wouldn't worry too much. You can run two in parallel so if one fails, you have redundancy but I would worry more about power cuts. I run aeroponics and got a server UPS for £50 on ebay. It has batteries, it's plug n play and will run the pump for days. I feel that power cuts are a much higher threat then pump failure. But all worth considering.

I would be at home for the duration of the grow and it would be in my bedroom but what sort of schedule could i expect in terms of checking adjusting.

Daily :) you don't have to do much daily but it's worth a daily check to see if everything is OK. But in peak production, you'll be topping up a 205 every two days and complete refills every 7-10 days. The plants will also require pruning etc. All standard stuff.

As i was under impression nutes user input wise with a small 20l tank would be fill with solution adjust ph etc then leave it until a water change was needed.

Nope :) if your tank drops more than 30% volume from when you filled it, you need to top up. DO NOT RUN BELOW 50%!! This is a common mistake and causes all sorts of issues, keep your tank topped up for success :)

the only upshots for me i can see to pots be it Soil/Coco are the bigger resivoir meaning less user input but this comes with more physical labour

This depends on who you ask :) I feel like you're already sold on N.F.T so I won't elaborate.

in terms of expensive meters im not sure what i would need exactly yet as still building a list so im open to any suggestions on kit.
but rough idea so far is
Green qube 100
telos led 400
extraction fan carbon filter kit 120
NFT tank 50
nutes and ph 100
extra pumps rock wool cubes etc 100

You'll need a propagator, PH&EC meters, internal fans for air movement, timer for light etc. If you want a full list, ask and I'll reply. My fingers are starting to hurt hahaha

but as its medicinal for me and currently paying far more than id like on a regular basis so what i will save long term will hopefully outweigh the initial outlay and my intended setup is small. also hope to save in led and environmental energy savings.

also is there anything in hydro as a method producing better quality resin terpene? so for me more medicinal value per harvest and same question for L.E.D

thanks again for taking the time to help out much appreciated

Growing your own is the way to go. There is no evidence of changes in terpenes and THC due to the method of growing. People have their opinions but I've never seen anything conclusive. The biggest influence on those factors are environmental and health related. Hydroponics is faster because the plants use less energy to feed and can consume more. Thst doesn't mean you can get more weight necessarily but you can grow a plant to maturity faster.

Hope this helps? Just shout if you want to ask me anything else.

[MediGrower]

Have a read :)
https://growroom420.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=347

[MediGrower]

thanks again grumpy grower & Nanook for the NFT diary

on the lighting
i have contacted reps for both and they are due to send some data/info to compare but how it looks now the InvSun nannook mentioned is for sure more efficient per watt/J but slightly lower HPS equivilant than I was looking for in the space
InvSun equivilant to 300w-HPS with suggested coverage 70 x 70 at flower. And telos 008 equivilant 400w hps suggested area 100x100 at flower. also as GG mentions the telos has Ip66 rating (bit of added safety/protection)
so i assume in the intended 80X80 the telos would be over spec slightly for the area and the InviSun slightly under spec for the area.
Better to be over spec or under spec?

grow system.
im pretty much sold on the NFT a little more user input than id intended coming in with nutrients ph schedule
but if i can get that sussed and keep on top of it, maybe with a little help from a mentor as you suggest then hopefully avoid any major issues. i need all the help i can get :)
any other approach from what i can see is going to require almost as much knowledge user input and/or more physical labour more media and water used and the need for large resevoir. As im in a small flat off the ground floor no garden and all equipment to be obtained online via postal/delivery method i feel NFT with LED is possibly my best place to start in terms of keeping equipment and setup as simple as possible but also being efficient water energy used and easier to manage environment is possibly an acceptable trade off for the extra brain work with hydro schedule

NFT Noise
I have a boiler in my bedroom so i am kind of used to this now. as long as its relitively quiet from a stealth point of view so being at or below the noise of fans should hopefully be fine. on lowering the mat to reduce noise causing the pythium root rot etc due to airation would having a bubbler for more oxygenated water help with this or could silver bullet or similar be added to solution to combat this

Pump Failures
On this what id read is as the pumps run 24/7 they basically just give up. i thought to buy spare pumps first and just replaces as failures strike. but then thought if the tank had 2 pumps set to come on 1h at a time so intermitently each had 1hr on 1hr off and if one fails the other runs every other hour until i notice (so not completely without water for that time) but dont mind buying extra pumps for spares to replace or run in conjunction.

user imput
daily imput is fine providing the manual labour isnt to intensive.
topping up water and changing water i guess would be the heavy bending lifting x litres of water i have a water source relatively close but what would be needed when topping up and changing?

i.e do i top up a few litres up to 30% (24hrs dechlorinated tap water) and reajust nutrients/ph in the tank accordingly every 2 days with each top up. or do i add nutes and ph balance the top up amount 30% then add that solution to the tank.

And with the 7-10 day water change do i wait for tank to reach 50% then use pump to syphon bad/old water out then just replenish with 24 hr dechlorinated tap water (or would using brita filtered tap water help) *hard water area*
so every week 50% in this case 10 litres water along with remaining nutrients is disposed of ? then fill back up add nutrients reajust ph and repeat.

method.
i am as you say for a few practical logistical reasons pretty much sold on NFT
the only thing i think might be suitable is a twin coco autopot with small resevoir to take some of the user imput out of it. but this adds the extra media and labour & logistical issues that come with it.

Equipment.
any advice suggestions on kit greatly appreciated. just dont wear the green fingers away ;)
i have been using growell grow-works and a few other web sites so far but will check out any others or specific bits of kit.
then when i have a setup and shopping list in mind ill go grab it all.
Then get environment and setup sorted while i order some seeds. intend to go from feminised seed first run then clone if possible/suitable to speed up following cycles, but will add propogator ec & ph meters to the list now.

GYO
yes i see no alternative now ive done the testing on the medical side i know this helps with some of my symptoms and sourcing clean safe material in the quantities i need is so expensive and unsustainable 600pm im not sure what a grow will produce to work out at yet £ but is got to be better than 600pm even includiing initial outlay. so i have no choice but to give it a grow.

yes the faster turnover is a positive to the hydro for me if I can get a few ounces from each plant x 2 in that space then hopefully grow enough to become perpetual and last harvest to harvest on what i grow. this is in part why i want to do as much homework as possible and get the right kit to eliminate as many issues as possible.
i get some is learn as you go and finding systems schedules that work for the user but you guys are and have been a massive help in eliminating alot of the concerns i had coming in and its giving me that positive push i needed.

thanks again guys always appreciated :)

[MediGrower]

I'll just in and help mentor an nft if you need, but I am only knowledgeable with ionic nutrients. I used as the thread above states.
Tbh it's easy once you do it yourself, youl be fine :)