Cal/mag Is it really needed?

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Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by kbag » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:25 am

I was speaking to wiz in chat and the subject of cal/mag came up. So i thought i would ask other grower's their thoughts on it and if it is really needed.
For me personally as my water is classed as hard i have no need for it or shouldn't. When i was cleaning out my groom i found a bottle that was over 3 years old and unopened so got me thinking i just wasted money on that. I see on a lot forums people get a deficiency and cal/mag is thrown into equation way to often. It seems to be the quick fix solution when in reality the root cause is not being addressed.
I would love to hear your views on this subject, so please post your thoughts for others to see and learn from.
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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by integrajosh » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:52 am

I think most of the time people prbly have issues with ph/lockout and they mistake this for a defieciency, when in reality the plants can't even take it in because of issues in the rootzone
I've been using cal mag this run but only because I switched to RO water. 0ppm



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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by GMO » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:18 am

Too many jump on the calmag train in my opinion

I also live in a semi hard water area tho, I find that at most a small addition of amino acid helps the calmag be available rather than pounding extra in

However, majority of what I thought was calmag in my earlier growing was usually just over watering tbh

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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by Nanook of the north » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:37 am

Personally I think it is needed maybe once to twice a grow. You can grow without it, but it seems to improve the veg at least using it.
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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by WeedJunkie » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:30 am

I have soft water where I come from the ec is 0.0/0.1 and my last grow of pink kush I noticed after the first feed the leaves started to get the red rusty spots. So I added calmag to the feed and bang problem was gone. I then would do a week or 2 using silicon in my feed and cut out the calmag. Almost immediately the red spots would start to appear again. So for the remainder of my last grow I included calmag every feed up until the mid flower flush. And with the calmag in the feed the plants were a picture of health no red spots. So with my limited knowledge and experience I think it is needed with if you have soft water

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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by Nanook of the north » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:12 pm

Was tidying the garage a bit... Unopened parcel!!! What could this be????
Ohh... Calmag pro 1litre hahaha saves me buying one next grow!
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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by Viz » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:47 pm

Calmag needs are very much determined by medium growing in, and type of water.

When growing in soil there really should be very little need for calmag. As a rule of thumb I do the following as a precautionary measure only. Week 4 the plants get a spray of Epson salts, and two weeks into flower that is repeated.

Coco and hydro growing - here it is all about water obviously as the substrate has nothing nutrient wise to offer the plant. Adding a pinch of RAW Amino Acids every feed ticks every box for me. The stuff acts as a chelating agent and aids in the absorption of minerals and other micronutrients that the plants need. Bare in mind the PH ranges of absorption are critical too.
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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by Keeno » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:53 pm

For me prevention is key in my mind set with cal-mag. I like a foliar feed of Cal Mag or a product to help uptake of this 2 weeks before flip and 2 weeks after flip. Loading up so to speak for when the plants will need more energy than at any other point.

I also agree that cal mag is run to as a get out of jail card when people post issues, when its not actually the issue at all, in fact it can make things worse.
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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by jimmi2scoops » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:20 pm

Never used it in 15+years of growing my AnB has everything in that plant needs so long as my ph is right plants are happy. I`m in softwater area :)

Tbh times when i really think peeps have had calcium deficiency issues are generally those in hard water areas cus most if not all of calcium carbonate in your hardwater is too big for plants to use and take up through roots so it can`t be used hence why they use cal phosphates which i think and am pretty sure that are used in cal/mag.

Imho in reality its a bit of snake oil for Brits with hardwater that do suffer cal/mag issues, they should really be buying AnB for softwater areas, basically that`s the only difference is the softwater ferts have added cal/mag, so it saves you £`s in that respect if you guys are using AnB .

Fulvic acid is a great additive in general but also for those hardwater growers for the simple reason it chelates/binds with the the calcium as well as with other ellements in your ferts and it kinda tricks roots into letting it through, basically it gets different ellements of your ferts to where they are needed faster and sneaky like, it also increases oxygen uptake into the plant.

Obviously if it happens in softewater areas you AnB types, theirs probably some sort of underlying problem, generally ph being off or big swings then it maybe called for at times.

That`s my take on it anyhow :) .
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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by The Aspie Toker » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:59 pm

jimmi2scoops wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:20 pm
Tbh times when i really think peeps have had calcium deficiency issues are generally those in hard water areas cus most if not all of calcium carbonate in your hardwater is too big for plants to use and take up through roots so it can`t be used hence why they use cal phosphates which i think and am pretty sure that are used in cal/mag.
I have heard that also. You've saved me typing that out.

If I prepare my soil in advance with dolomite lime, then I am generally okay. But if I forget or don't have time, then I use cal-mag when needed.
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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by integrajosh » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:56 pm

The Aspie Toker wrote:
jimmi2scoops wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:20 pm
Tbh times when i really think peeps have had calcium deficiency issues are generally those in hard water areas cus most if not all of calcium carbonate in your hardwater is too big for plants to use and take up through roots so it can`t be used hence why they use cal phosphates which i think and am pretty sure that are used in cal/mag.
I have heard that also. You've saved me typing that out.

If I prepare my soil in advance with dolomite lime, then I am generally okay. But if I forget or don't have time, then I use cal-mag when needed.
Lime is honestly a shit thing to add to soils, there's much better options that won't jack up your ph aspie. Oyster shells or something along those lines would work for calcium

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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by The Aspie Toker » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:45 pm

integrajosh wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:56 pm
Lime is honestly a shit thing to add to soils, there's much better options that won't jack up your ph aspie.
That's if you leave it too late. I have mine in there for at least 3 months before using. It has stabilized by then.
1 tablespoon per 5 litres of soil.
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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by jimmi2scoops » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:19 pm

The Aspie Toker wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:45 pm
integrajosh wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:56 pm
Lime is honestly a shit thing to add to soils, there's much better options that won't jack up your ph aspie.
That's if you leave it too late. I have mine in there for at least 3 months before using. It has stabilized by then.
1 tablespoon per 5 litres of soil.
Yes Aspie you do hear of or see peeps top dressing their soils with dolomite lime when they think they have problems that call for it mid grow. Pretty much a wasted exercise that one is yes ?
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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by The Aspie Toker » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:26 pm

jimmi2scoops wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:19 pm
Yes Aspie you do hear of or see peeps top dressing their soils with dolomite lime when they think they have problems that call for it mid grow. Pretty much a wasted exercise that one is yes ?
Yep, pointless to do it then and more likely to cause more problems than it will (supposedly) fix. It has to be done months in advance or not at all.
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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by integrajosh » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:22 pm

The Aspie Toker wrote:
integrajosh wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:56 pm
Lime is honestly a shit thing to add to soils, there's much better options that won't jack up your ph aspie.
That's if you leave it too late. I have mine in there for at least 3 months before using. It has stabilized by then.
1 tablespoon per 5 litres of soil.
Sry mate but I'm going with the guy that builds soils for a living. Just being open minded, that's all

This is an article where he compares popular organic soil mix recipes that people preach, and he actually has explanations of why he recommends what he usesImage

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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by GMO » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:00 pm

integrajosh wrote:
The Aspie Toker wrote:
integrajosh wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:56 pm
Lime is honestly a shit thing to add to soils, there's much better options that won't jack up your ph aspie.
That's if you leave it too late. I have mine in there for at least 3 months before using. It has stabilized by then.
1 tablespoon per 5 litres of soil.
Sry mate but I'm going with the guy that builds soils for a living. Just being open minded, that's all

This is an article where he compares popular organic soil mix recipes that people preach, and he actually has explanations of why he recommends what he usesImage

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I thought gypsum was only calcium no magnesium. I'm curious why he refer to it as a viable alternative for a different element?

translated from the bongo of the canna jungle

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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by GMO » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:01 pm

Ahh, maybe he is comparing water retention of treated soil?

translated from the bongo of the canna jungle

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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by integrajosh » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:12 pm

GMO wrote:
integrajosh wrote:
The Aspie Toker wrote:
That's if you leave it too late. I have mine in there for at least 3 months before using. It has stabilized by then.
1 tablespoon per 5 litres of soil.
Sry mate but I'm going with the guy that builds soils for a living. Just being open minded, that's all

This is an article where he compares popular organic soil mix recipes that people preach, and he actually has explanations of why he recommends what he usesImage

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
I thought gypsum was only calcium no magnesium. I'm curious why he refer to it as a viable alternative for a different element?

translated from the bongo of the canna jungle
He gets his magnesium from other sources, like sea kelp, that don't affect the compaction apparentlyImage

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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by GMO » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:30 pm

As long as it fits your means bud

People selling stuff have a way of explaining why their products or methods are better without giving all the information

translated from the bongo of the canna jungle

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Re: Cal/mag Is it really needed?

Post by integrajosh » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:33 pm

GMO wrote:As long as it fits your means bud

People selling stuff have a way of explaining why their products or methods are better without giving all the information

translated from the bongo of the canna jungle
That's true, but he's giving away free information when he could easily just say "hey, buy my soil. It'll fix all your problems"

I just really want to get as educated as possible on organic growing, looking to multiple sources for info, etc. Not bashing anybody that uses lime, to each their own

But if there's even a slight chance of an issue I wouldn't do it

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